I may be late to the party on this one, but that was deliberate. I have held back opining on the new law for a couple of reasons. First, the initial reports of the law’s provisions had me concerned (as it has many in the American right). Secondly, and admittedly a little more important to me, was the Governor who signed it into law: Jan Brewer – previously known as a tax-hiking squish.
Then I read Byron York’s must-read pieces on the subject in the Washington Examiner, and things were cleared up nicely.
As an aside, there is no political reporter I trust more than Byron York. Two years ago, when much of the American right (including many of my good friends) fell into mass hysteria about an accusation John McCain aimed at Mitt Romney (McCain said Romney supported setting a date for American withdrawal from Iraq), York – practically alone among National Review writers – calmly examined the quotes in question and concluded, rightly, that McCain had a point.
In this case, York has painstakingly noted that the Arizona law will not do what so many of its critics claim – namely, allow the cops to stop anyone, anytime, anywhere and demand proof of citizenship or legal residence. As such, it’s actually a fine law, and very similar to law enforcement actions on this issue in Prince William County.
So why did so many think otherwise, and even worse, make comments on the law not knowing what was really in it? I see two reasons.
Arizona is nearly 3,000 miles from Prince William. Moreover, since the PWC controversy flared up at roughly the same time as the debate over President Bush’s Iraqi surge, it’s almost certain that no one in Washington was paying attention. So, many of the folks who went through this debate a few years back were largely ignored as this came to fruition in the desert. Had this been Virginia, Maryland, or another nearby state, the Prince William example would have played a starring role in the discussion, and much of the hysteria surrounding this would not have ensued.
The other reason is far more unfortunate and preventable, too many people in the chattering classes still pay attention to the New York Times. It was a Times columnist, Linda Greenhouse, who got the disinformation ball rolling on this by getting the law wrong (Mark Krikorian explains the error on The Corner). Please note that several major conservatives who have taken issue with the law did so after Greenhouse’s error (which she has since corrected – Corner again).
York himself noted the mistake so many of the law’s critics have made in his second Examiner column (here’s the link again).
From where I sit, Arizona is basically following Prince William’s example, in which case, I can fully support what they’re doing.
Filed under: National Politics, Prince William County Politics, Virginia Politics
[...] Cross-posted to VV [...]
The libs very well know what the law says. They are engaging in lies and distortations in order to paint anyone who is against illegals as nazi’s. Which of course turns into, how can a person support a law that is favored by nazi like people?
The illegal supporters and libs can’t defend their position so they distort and resort to lies in order to take the attention off of their position and place it on the other side, who will then have to spend time explaining they are not nazi’s rather than spending time on explaining why illegal immigration is bad for the Country.
I dont know why all the far far right people blame everything on the libs!! It is evident that Arizona didnt get the message out right in the first place; and Byron York is the only person who reported the law as such…BUT, lets make sure he has it right becuse if he does, yep, its just like PWC
one more thing….i understand that the PWC policy is connected with Section 287g……and in that way, all levels of govt are on board to arrest criminals. If the Arizona law mirrors Arizona, how come there has been no mention of 287? In fact, even Holder is speaking out against the Arizona law….
@ Ken, the lib media, are the one’s distorting the law, DUH. Eric Holder is a dem hack, who released terrorist, when he was in the justice department under Clinton, so who cares what the hell he says.
@therightwingliberal, thank you for finally clarifying the law, and putting something up about it, some of our own party can not read to well and have been bashing the law on facebook.
Ken,
it’s also lib elected officials who are distorting the law. I watched an interview with the lib Senate Pro Tem from the Land of fruits and nuts, and he insisted that people would be pulled over without cause simply based on their skin color.
A dem congressman from Arizona said the same.
So, you ask why only libs are getting the blame, it’s because they are the only ones distorting the law.
Just as was the case with Prince William County, the libs are lying about the law, lying about what is going to happen etc.
Ken actually brings up a good point. In PWC, there is/was federal statutory for PWC to establish there program. Under the 287(g) program, there are requirements for the locality to establish the program, namely the training requirement.
None of that has been done in Arizona’s case.
In effect, the bill may be in violation of federal law and the United States Constitution.
Problem is Arizona it targeting the wrong villian.
Illegal immigration is caused by American citizens and legal residents who rely on the cheap labor of illegal immigrants to get their work done.
If you want to stem the tide of illegals crossing the borders, you need to start jailing businesses, farmers and families who hire these folks to mow their lawns, pluck their chickens and wait their tables.
Of course you can see the problem.
Those folks are mainly white, mainly wealthy and mainly Republican.
I figured it would not be long before the likes of norris showed up.
How about the illegals that come here to not work? You know the ones that join gangs? How about the ones that come here to smuggle drugs and to work in drug fields?
You are right, that many businesses do hire illegals, but that’s only half the problem. The problem is people like you who ignore the illegals and simply can’t bring yourself to blame them.
Since you seem to not have a concern for illegals, why don’t you offer to host one that has raped and or murdered. You can allow them to live in your home and you can keep an eye on them.
Where are you stats that show people that hire illegals are mainly white, mainly wealthy and mainly GOP?
WOW…….lots of views here!! And of course, for each one, there is a different slant on the proposed Arizona law!! I say proposed, because, according to the Tuscon Sherff, it has not been made operational yet. He says he wont enforce that law, but that he has been doing exactly what the law says…for the past 20 years. When his deputies pick up undocumented people, they quick hand them over to ICE…….This guy makes a lot of sense and has not been flaming the fire. BTW, i heard him on my favorite station MSNBC!!! BTW, apparently the proposed Arizona law is not like PWC, which, in my humble opinion, FUBARED real estate values throughout PWC!!!!
I am glad that some misperceptions on the law are being cleared up. It’s very easy for people to yak without actually reading the law, which is why we rely on media (too much usually) to feed us facts.
Speaking to border patrol and investigators who are on the front lines, crime is a problem that has been growing and something must be done. What media perports (according to officers) as innocent labor workers looking for a better life is false. There is serious human trafficking/drug smuggling through AZ because of lack of resources and the innability for law enforcement to actually ENFORCE illegal immigration laws throughout the state. Now thier hands will no longer be tied.
@Ken Reynolds: Interesting. No disrespect to the Tuscon Sheriff, but hows that working for him? Apparently it hasn’t been for Maricopa County.
If we keep relying on a single large entity to solve this major problem, it won’t and is PROVING to not be working. We must take care of ourselves before more people are kidnapped, killed, and we go deeper into debt paying for illegal criminals.
I wonder why, Vickie, that the Sherrifff of Tuscon says he enforces the goals of the current law without any new legislation? Sounds like horrible conditions in Arizona, but is this law the best way to address the problems? I think it would be great if our national guard enforced our federal laws right at the border…….
Ken: He probably is enforcing the law, I don’t doubt that. The problem is that most of them get through which leaves the rest of the state at risk. PD was never allowed to even ask about documents before when (for instance) pulling someone over for speeding–even if they suspected. True the Feds haven’t done enough..even now our former Gov has claimed things are fine when only a year ago she was fighting for more enforcement. They either don’t care or the government is so political/complex that nothing gets done efficiently, so we have to take care of ourselves. An example that comes to mind is all of us relying on a central source for our food, so we stand in lines waiting to buy our sustenance rather than going to the grocery story to get what we need when we need it. Maybe that’s a bad example, but some independence is needed here I think.
ICE can only do so much. With mounting finances, I am sure the Sheriff would prefer the Feds to pay for the cost of processing them, but what about the ones who make it through? Our state is left with lots of problems because we aren’t even allowed to question them. Try doing that in Mexico btw. =)
Additionally, the fears of racial profiling were always a concern long before this law and of course you can see who it is apposing it. I really do believe in our culture of freedom enough that those fears are unfounded. We are not targeting “Mexicans” as everyone likes to say…there are many illegals from lots of countries (even China) who come here because they know they CAN. What about those who go through proper channels to obtain citizenship, work, or school…it’s not fair to them. Additionally, the tigher we secure our border, the more secure we are making the US as a whole.
Ken: I wrote this nice response and it disappeared into cyberspace.
In short: I don’t doubt the Tucson Sheriff is doing his job. There are officers getting killed at the border. Because enforcement is happening, the criminals are getting tougher and causing car accidents with innocent people to distract and get a way. The problem is escalating violence AND hundreds of folks a month who are getting through…what do we do with them when law enforcement is not allowed to question them? Our former Gov has turned her back on us now that she has a Federal job, so we must take care of ourselves.
AZ is very high on identity theft, which becomes a loophole for illegals to blend in without actually going through the proper channels. What about those who do go through the process of coming here to work,school, or become a citizen. Is it fair to them?
The fear of racial profiling has always been here, but what the media doesn’t say is that it’s not just Mexicans…there are lots of people from many countries (even China) coming through because they know they CAN. Allowing officers to enforce a law that is already a law (go figure) will make the whole US safer. Do people really think that our state would abuse this with all the controversy and everyone watching and hating us? Give me a break. Besides, if one isn’t doing something wrong, then there is nothing to worry about yes?
Ken,
Is that the same MSNBC that hid the race of gun owner to make it appear only whites were showing up at town hall meetings with guns? You really should get a new source for news.
Thank you Vickie………..you obviously know a lot about the subject and I learn from your comments; i agree with what you say but do have trouble with the last comment: if one isnt doing something wrong, there is nothing to worry about…………lots of issues there including the racial offense that is taken by a huge segment of our society…….the very implication people can be stopped and questioned, and if they dont have their papers with them, they can be arrested and who knows what happens then……i am irish-american and would be very offended if the govt went after us!!!
Citizen………….i am addicted to MSNBC!!! I dont quite know what you are talking about – hiding guns – but do know the town hall meetings were a disaster in terms of forming public policy!! Everyone shouting and fighting…………hurt everyone’s cause. I will never understand why they werent in the standard format of soliciting views…………….people line up, identify themselves and have their say……………that worked especially well during the PWC Immigration matter when the meeting went til 3……..with no outbursts!!
Ken…I totally understand! The last thing I would want to see is descrimination of any kind. To clarify my statement: I meant that if someone is obviously breaking the law i.e. traffic violation, selling drugs, theft, etc. Things that draw attention to PD, not walking down the street with brown skin.
Interestingly enough, President Obama suggested that illegal immigrants should be forced to speak English, be fined, and taken to the back of the immigration processing line. Here is the link: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20003600-503544.html
What do you think about that idea?
ken,
Of course you don’t know about the story because msnbc is not going to say it distored the story to further their agenda. Which of course was to push the idea only whites were showing up with guns.
There was at least one huge outbrust at the meeting, Ken, and of course it was from the illegal supporters.
Here is a link to the story about MSNBC.
http://www.sodahead.com/question/577801/answers/msnbc-black-gun-owner-is-white-rage-at-black-president-msnbc-caught-red-handed-faking-news/?page=7
Vickie……i am really shocked that Obama said that!! In addition to angering a large piece of his constituency, i imagine forcing someone to speak English would get thrown out of court soooooooooooo fast……..even the current SC wouldnt like it??
I’m becoming more and more confused by the lack of knowledge of the Arizona law. Yesterdy, everyone on here said it twas a mirror of PWC; but today, all the newsprint say that people can be stopped just for standing there………………vastly different from PWC where there must be an offense.
Ken,
The law does not provide that law enforcement can just randemly stop people. That is an out and out lie by those people that support illegals.
Here is a link to the law. http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/summary/s.1070pshs.doc.htm
Citizen I was just about to post that too. The problem I think people are having is with the Trespassing portion of it as it refers to anyone who is on Arizona land w/out registering for legal status is breaking the law. It does not say that people will be checked for trespassing; hence, randomly stopping people, but rather this part supports the foundation of enforcing immigration law when one breaks a law requiring PD to be involved.
Most of the bill is about human smuggling and hiring illegal workers; however, there is a penalty for someone who is found to not willingly register for legal status with the gov. That is only fair considering those who do it the right way and those who are abused by slave labor.
Aside from the criminal acitivity and the risk to our national security, if one comes here illegally, they must survive. They either do it by identity theft so they appear legal or by working for greedy companies, living off a fraction of what they deserve. If we encourage them to go through the process (plus reform it), then that action alleviates many problems.
Case in point: A colleague of mine is an advocate for Mesa PD. She was called to a death of an illegal worker who died while trimming a palm tree. He left behind a young wife and child. If he and she had been legal, she would be entitled to Social Security benefits until her child was 18 years and possibly life insurance if he was employed properly. Just one example of many in how this problem harms people.
Vickie,
So true. I suppose after being stopped by the police for another issue, if found to be an illegal, the transpassing charge could also be applied. But, I rather think there would be more serious crimes they could be charged with, and the traspassing charge would be dropped.
That’s why I do not understand why people support illegals. The usual line of “they are otherwise law abiding” is too funny.
You’d have to ignore the fact they are working, have either stolen or purchased documents on the black market, etc. Exactly at what point in the eyes of their supporters do illegals become criminals?
Thank you Citizen and Vickie regarding the cite……cant argue with the facts!! I just dont understand the difference between this situation and the Section 287 agreeemnt between PWC and ICE and many localitiies and ICE…..are we all talking about the same thing? And if so, i wonder why Arizona did not go that route than what has currently happened…..thank you again!!!
Ken,
You are welcome. The arizona law covers more than the County law, which makes sense.
The government is not enforcing immigration laws, nor are they deporting illegals like they should and the states are paying the price as well as its citizens! Unemployed, familes and states are struggling to survive, and to offer amnesty is flat our irresponsible. We do not have enough jobs for legal immigrants and other citizens, so enforcement is the ONLY solution to get OUR unemployed back to work and out of our ER’s where Obama admitted illegals go “and we pay for”!!
Did you hear that they are going to take the detention places and treat them like hotels or similar with a lot less restrictions? Going to allow illegals to wear street clothes, have buffet type food all the time, less restriction on visits and hold other nonconventional things for illegals that is not done for other criminals? It is already in the works with the contractor that oversees the facilities! Contact your rep and stop this outrageous and dangerous proposals. How will you know who’s leaving the detention facility if hey are allowed to wear street clothes and mingle with guests?
Hi Mary, Happy Fourth………you are correct, in many comments, on the impact of undocumented immigrants in my opinion. I disagree that Obama is to blame for something has been going on for years. Bush tried to do something two years ago, but that proposal war blown out by the far,far right. The bottom line is that we cannot have localities making up laws to suit their parachial intrests on a matter that is under the federal govt…end of story!!